jul 7


So last week Tracie and Moe of Jezebel were on Lizz Winstead's show, Shoot The Messenger. Things got rowdy when the topic turned toward rape. It's a seven-layer cake of complicated.


I'm still undecided as to whether the Jezebel editors should exercise discretion and/or avoid being wildly irreverent just because they have positions of influence. Other media companies would have fired them, but Denton will encourage the free publicity.

In any case, they need to work on their comic act. Apparently they were trying to be funny, but got the rotten tomatoes treatment.

posted by Brian Van at 10:19 AM on July 7, 2008

Brian: I saw your post about it.

I'm not ultimately sure what to think about their appearance, but I don't like how you dismissed their points by declaring them childish. Also, you keep mentioning Denton, which seems extremely tangential to all this.

posted by Rex at 10:38 AM on July 7, 2008

This was painful to watch. They came off as stupid, ignorant and honesty-not such eloquent speakers. That was not cool Jezebel..

posted by marrina at 10:41 AM on July 7, 2008

I can't believe those are real human beings.

posted by BradOFarrell at 10:47 AM on July 7, 2008

So I guess others don't see it as "complicated." I guess to me there's the context of it being a comedy show. Like the bit about pulling out as birth control -- isn't that a Sarah Silverman line?

posted by Rex at 10:52 AM on July 7, 2008

They sounded pretty buzzed. It seemed their comments were a little tongue in cheek. It was also hard to determine what was comedy, and what was honesty. I suppose theres always a bit of honesty, even in comedy.

I don't know what was more annoying. Them talking over each other, or the host chastising them. It's like she's never read Jezebel, or any comments on the site.

posted by taulpaul at 11:19 AM on July 7, 2008

The chick with the black hair was infuriating, her failed jokes aside... When she tried to make intelligent points they just showed a total disconnect from the subject.

"I paid someone to rape me."
"I live in Williamsberg and the men there are too passive to rape me."
"I think I would like to be raped because I'm so dominant and most of the guys I end up with are submissive."

She's wearing a feedbag full of her own shit. They're trying to have a conversation about the actual act of rape and she's confusing it with her fetish roleplay shit. Retard.

posted by BradOFarrell at 11:19 AM on July 7, 2008

Just saw this: Tracie's response.

And this: Metafilter thread.

posted by Rex at 11:20 AM on July 7, 2008

p.s. Lizz is a Minnesotan! (I believe Marsh has a profile about her coming out in MSP Mag soon.)

posted by Rex at 11:28 AM on July 7, 2008

Rex: I think both Moe and Tracie have some good points on a lot of subjects. But it's also pretty clear that they got good and drunk, stepped up to the mic, and made a bunch of jokes that were poorly understood. They didn't really care about the repercussions, or cared only as much as a jaded teenager might. I attribute that to immaturity, and not some sort of innate evil or hostility against feminism. But since even the girls are dismissive of their own comments, it's pretty obvious that we should be dismissive, too.

Denton's role in this is that this is his modus operandi. Denton did not tell them to visit a comedy show and act like jackasses, but I don't find this incident inconsistent with their roles on Jezebel. And where does the Jezebel buck stop? Denton has a tradition of hiring low-rate writers who mimic his own sensibilities (and he is known to not care who he offends or degrades). His investment and marketing resources empower the bloggers in his employ, so that their message reaches a significant audience. And, as the hands-on leader of a publishing company, his role is essentially executive editor. The girls at Jezebel enjoy much more autonomy than the Gawker.com bloggers, of course, but even so, what do you think his reaction is to this brouhaha? He hasn't rebuked their behavior publicly, even as he knows quite well that these girls were representing the Jezebel brand. (Anna at Jezebel indeed scolded them privately for misrepresenting the website) If we're talking NYMag and Adam Moss here, they'd both be out of a job. So, I do think the girls were irresponsible, and Denton pretty much pays them to be that way on a daily basis, and this is the fruit of that arrangement. If there were any accountability here, there would have been a formal apology more substantial than "we know we fucked up, so I got drunk enough afterward to forget it."

posted by Brian Van at 3:27 PM on July 7, 2008

whoa, this reminds me of conversations i've had with my brother in law, the unquestioning republican, except he wasn't drunk. i totally get the interviewer's reaction.

but yeah, i'd be hiding the next day if i was acting that way on film. the lack of eye contact on moe's part is interesting. room spinning? planning an exit? thinking of the next punchline?

side note- when people who are old enough to drink who talk about drinking like it's this super cool thing (like 15 year olds in high school do) it instantly makes me annoyed.

posted by kittyholmes at 3:56 PM on July 7, 2008

This cements my commitment to forbidding my future daughter (or son) from ever using upspeak, or the world "like" as filler, as in:

"I guess, I like, regret being date raped" spoken as a, like, question?

And anyone who's even glanced at Tracie's site, can't be surprised that the woman attached to it would acquit herself so poorly in person. Someone who blabs to the world-at-large about her genital warts and documents every dollop of cum she touches comes off like a self-absorbed moron ? Color me shocked!

I just feel bad for the young girls who might view these hipster idiots as anything to idolize. Jezebel posits itself as a critical response to stupid girl culture like Lohan, etc., but they don't seem much different to her here. They drape everything in an ironic world-weariness, but they just seem sad and ran-through. Lizz had it right. You're not smart, you're just lucky.

posted by boredwithit at 9:52 PM on July 7, 2008

I think Lizz did read Jezebel. When you go to the site, or Tracie/Moe blog, tons of commentors call them hero, and icon and my guess is that is why she was so freaked.
Lizz is hilarious and no prude for sure but also is a political junkie. Look at their site, she has some very cool people booked who have a lot to say about the world.Jezebel is extremely popular so my guess is that she wanted to explore this kind of feminism and challenge them on a few things. Read these posts, people have a bunch of levels of WTF, why wouldn't she as well.

posted by Martha at 9:08 AM on July 8, 2008

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